About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

[Gen.Pe]

First off; I found this wonderful book by mistake browsing through the shelves at the library. I started reading it and instantly felt like THIS WAS IT. It made soooo much logical sense and I was so relieved to understand my baby from his point of view. I know I will triumph with the cure and I can’t wait to start! I should mention that I haven’t reached the sleep deprivation issue myself nor has my boy, it’s been ok, but I wanted to be proactive with sleep training early so we create good habits. Knowing I would follow through with the cure I decided a few weeks ago to note all our naps feedings and activities so I could analyze our “schedule” in order to make a proper one like the book teaches. Currently my son eats about 10 times a day; exclusively breast feeding. Daytime feeds are usually every 2 hours and evening feeds are usually every 3. Most times he falls asleep during breastfeeding. His naps were sporadic some long some short and I would never wake him he woke when he was done sleeping. I know I can improve this and i will confidently do so now with the GNS book.

On top of studying his patterns I started napping him; in preparation for the cure; in his crib on his tummy (have always followed the “rules” since birth...back is best) which has gone fairly well.

I should also note I have read lots of comments in this forum and I’ve read that including solid meals with breastfeeding is best to accomplish a rested night without the child going hungry. Of course everyone has told me to wait until 5 or 6 months but I trust Anna and her methods more than anything now having read the book so am willing to give that a try.

Here is his new and improved schedule based on GNS guidelines. This is my goal: I have not yet been able to stick to this yet and please correct if I am not quite there with my schedule...

Night 830-730am
740am- playtime
830am- feed
10am- nap (45min)
11am- feed
1230pm nap- (1.5hours)
2pm- feed <here I run errands or exercise with him so sometimes he takes a cat nap around 20 min in his car seat or stroller>
4pm- nap (45min)
5pm- feed
730pm- bath time
8pm- top up feed
830pm- good night


I would like your advice with some of these questions;

1) if giving my son solids, I assume baby cereal will suffice? How much is appropriate? For a 6month old the bag says 3 tablespoons? How many times a day do you recommend? Where would you insert that in the schedule?

2) I understand that during the cure nothing can interrupt it. However before I embarked on this journey I registered us in some classes/activities that cannot be moved.
Tuesday’s at 10am we swim then at 230pm we have story time at the library. These last 30 min. Both go into May.
Wednesday’s at 130pm we have a mom and tot group which lasts 2 hours. This ends Apr 11.
My son can nap pretty much anywhere if he’s tired but I assume it’s not as restful or as long, what do you suggest we do about this and his schedule after the cure and follow up week?

3) I have been introducing parts and pieces of the cure tools now to help him adjust for when the 4 days happen (planned for April 4-7th) like buffing instead of rocking him in my arms for naps if he wakes up, using the daytime jingle, fanning. He still falls asleep when I breastfeed at each time so I usually carry him to his crib and lay him on his tummy. For nights he’s asleep when I carry him to bed after feeding too. Currently his nights are in our room in a bassinet which will change with the cure too. So therefore I haven’t actually tried to put him down when he’s awake yet. My question is is it ok to introduce some of these things now or should I just stick to our normal and wait until the cure to start these habits?

4) The longest he slept without waking is six hours and when he does sleep that long he wakes with a ravenous appetite. Going almost double that makes me nervous so if I do start baby cereal should I do that the day:night of our cure or before to prepare? Just to confirm during the cure I do not lift him out of bed at any point in the night and I do not breastfeed him?

5) I understand that to remain on track during the cure we DO wake him from daytime naps if he sleeps over the schedule amount. And that we DO allow him to hang out/cry/get buffed/do jingle if we is awake or wakes up during naps for the WHOLE time. Correct? What about after the cure; can he sleep however long he wants during naps? I read about the 15 min max shift in the schedule but if ever I loose track of time wil it completely mess up the cures effectiveness?

Sorry for my long post. Am so looking forward to your reply! Thank you in advance.

[TorsMamma]

Hi Gen.Pe and welcome!

I'm glad you found the book!

So first the schedule:

recommended sleep for a 4 month old is 15,5 hours/day and yours only have 14 so you are 1,5 hours short of sleep. Look at the examples for appropriate age. 5+6 month old is 15 hours/day.

We usually recommend using the rhythm 12+45+2+45

And a very common time is

Night 19-07 / 7pm-7am
am nap 8.45-9.30
mid day nap 11.30-13.30
pm nap 15.30-16.15 / 3.30-4.15 pm

Please consider this when you create the schedule. At 5 months we make the mid day nap to 1,5 hours.

1. Yes some cereal will do, but we here like to prefer proper food pure or if you like use BLW (baby led weaning) But we like sweetpotato pure with lots of unsalted butter, broccoli pure with lots of butter and so on. If you buy already made food, add extra unsalted butter in it or coconut oil. You give until they cant eat any more. They need to be fed up. (at least 2-3 meal/day)

2. So the activities, you cannot change the schedule for a day once in a while, we keep the times basically no matter what. So the baby swimming will work since the naps provided above takes this. He then gets to sleep the nap in the stroller or the car. I guess the other activities also work if you use my schedule above. If anything doesn't fit he needs to take the nap at his time where the activity is. Put him in the stroller, hang a sheet over so he can't see out, and sleep.

3. We don't recommend you using ANY of the tools at this time, you introduce them all when you start the cure. If you do it before this will have no or little effect when you start the cure and make it that much more difficult. The only thing we like is to start with the schedule and the food and bellysleeping WITH a sleepapnea alarm.

4. You can start with solids right now, this will only effect the cure positive. It is correct, we don't pic them up unless you MUST got with him to the hospital. We calm them down where they are and teach them to fall a sleep on their own. This is not a putting you baby to sleep method, it is a calm you baby down so they can put them selves to sleep method.

5. That is correct, we keep the schedule with the flexibility of 15 min. If he takes 15 min to go to sleep, you can put him in bed 15 min earlier so he falls asleep on time. Set the timer or your alarm on the phone. After a few months he will have the times in his own body. If he wakes up 5-10 min early on a nap, you can use the 15 min margin to pic him up. You are trying to teach him the clock within himself that is why keeping the schedule to the minute is so important.

Keep asking there should be NO questions left before you start the cure. Read the boo again at least 5 times before you start the cure. In the very back of the book there is an example on how the cure might work.

[Gen.Pe]

Hi! Great advice thanks so much. To clarify:

By proper food “pure” do you mean purée like mashed up foods? I’d rather start with purée than the BLW as he cannot sit up alone yet and doesn’t have the fine motor skills.

Do you stir in the butter or oils to help them stay full or for flavour?

If you suggest 2-3 times a day...would adding cereal and purée meals about 1/2 hour before morning afternoon and midday naps?

I will cease to use the tools until the cure, good thing I asked!! But...the way I did things before the book...like picking him up when he cry’s and rocking him in my arms, breastfeeding him to sleep...should I keep doing those until the cure? Because in your 4th point you suggest letting him calm himself down. So which is which? Do what I used to or don’t pick him up and rock him? And if I can’t use buffing etc yet to calm him does that mean I let him lay there crying?

Lastly, do I start this schedule now or at the cure?

Thanks so much!

[TorsMamma]

Hi,
Look in the book regarding the mealtime. But we have 4 meals and a night cap. So times for food could be:
07 breastfeed you have 45 min to do this. No hurry!
10.45 lunch puree (yes mashed veggies and butter/coconutoil for staying full) Fill upp with breastmilk if you wish or start with breastfeeding. But we do them together within the 45 min a meal can take.
14.30 snack/breastfeed perhaps some banana here?
17.30 Dinner (no breastfeeding if you wish) real food
18.30 breastfeed and a bath then laughter and go to bed.

Yes you continue doing as before, pick him up and the way you did before. The answers to your questions is with the cure.

Schedule can start now. Read my answer again please.

[Gen.Pe]

Thanks. I re read it. And I will keep reading the book too. Okay! I’ll get started and report back once we start the cure!

[Gen.Pe]

Sorry! Another few questions popped into my head.

With the recommendation to play Mozart during the cure..do you mean constantly throughout the night for the full 4 days? If so that’s fine but just want to get it right!

Secondly our son has slept with a white noise machine since birth. Do you recommend keeping it on, lowering volume (usually it’s on high which can be heard on the other side of my house- it’s not blaring but it is loud), or turning it off entirely? If turning it off is the answer..permanently or just during cure and follow up week?

[TorsMamma]

Hi,

No, no Mozart night one is needed. It is a emergency tool for early mornings when the child is "stuck" in their own wallow and wont listen to you or the jingle. I think it will get clear to you as you re-read the book about 5 times.

Yes, I would turn the white noise machine off. If you find you really need it after 2 weeks we can talk about it I guess, but we usually don't like noise IN the room, but outside the room is ok. Life goes on as I sleep you know?

If the "white noise" machine is there, it is a "Prop" and the point with the cure is they will need no prop such as pacifiers or things like that. But some has a small blanket or so. But the preconditions always needs to be there. The pitch dark bedroom is one of them. So check the bedroom at noon and go in, close the door and if you can se your hand in front of you, it is not dark enough.

[Gen.Pe]

Dear torsmamma,

Thank you for answering me about the Mozart and noise machine. We’ve been working towards the schedule you suggested. I have a few questions.

It seems my son wants to nap again at 1:30pm which is in the middle of his two naps...the 11am and 330pm. Should I allow this? It’s almost impossible to keep him up. We go out and do things to keep him busy but it makes him extremely fussy. Perhaps the afternoon 2 hour nap can be broken into two naps? What do you suggest?

And also...I’ve tried my best to restructure his day so we can get him down at 7 instead of 8/9pm. He happily eats his top up at 630 after his bath and gets sleepy after but when we put him down that early he wakes up every hour until 9/10pm and when I feed him at that time then he sleeps in his usual 3 hour increments. Any advice here?

[TorsMamma]

Hi, I do know a few who has a difficult time with 3 naps, does he sleep the entire 2 hours? I wouldn't suggest breaking it up at this point, you have only tried the schedule for 5 days, and we like to say 2 weeks of evaluation before change.

Does he eat solids at dinner now? If you top him up with breastmilk and no solids for dinner, the milk is not fat enough, sometimes (I got this advice) I pumped from my morning milk and gave as a nightcap. Perhaps also you could breastfeed a bit before the bath and also after? Since you haven't started the cure, you can actually breastfeed hin to sleep if that is what you did before. If not, give him some more breastfeeding directly after the bath in the towel. And then have 10-15 min laughter before putting him down. Then he gets a "dubble" top off!

[Gen.Pe]

For the daytime naps: no he doesn’t usually sleep the full two hours, but has a few times since we started structured day time naps in his crib in his own bedroom (beyond 5 days ago, probably since he’s been 12 weeks old). So if we leave the schedule as is and not add a 4th nap...what should I do around 1:30 to keep him up another two hours until his 3:30 nap?

Sorry if I wasn’t clear on the comment regarding putting him to bed earlier. What I mean is he does to go bed and sleep around 7/730pm after his top up and does so easily as yes currently he falls asleep while
I nurse him but wakes up shortly after (usually within 20 min or an hour later) then has trouble having a restful sleep. We battle with him for a few hours on and off to keep him asleep. Once I feed him again around 9 then and only then does he sleep a few hours at a time.

Currently he is eating pablum/baby cereal in the morning and before his bath in the evening (we just started this a few days ago to help with the cure we’ll start soon. In Canada starting solids at his age is frowned upon..fear mongering by doctors and such...so I am really nervous about doing it wrong, introducing it too early, giving him stomach problems, allergies, obesity issues later on. These are the things books and doctors say although a part of me feels he is ready for solids but I want to start slow with pablum first then purses then mashed foods). Good idea on the morning milk however I can’t pump a full bottle and feed him my milk in the morning in one stint- I don’t produce enough. Secondly he isn’t a fan of the bottle, most times when we’ve given him the bottle he really fights it. Also I mentioned in my other comment we’ve not really put him to bed awake before. The GNS book makes it sound easy and it does make total logical sense but a part of me thinks that makes him falling asleep harder (on me) not easier. And yes during the cure I will send that doubt out of my mind with acting as the book says

Apologies for all my questions and uncertainty but I just really want to get this right and have that certainty before we start!

[Gen.Pe]

Purees not purses haha

[TorsMamma]

Hi again,

So I will try to clarify things. IN Sweden we have the exact same "reservations" about solid foods. This is due to the WHO that has set this directive due to for instance African children where they found that giving breastmilk until 6 months old will surely suffice. (Please reade SUFFICE) not make children thrive! So here we have the exact same issues and misconceptions.

If you are able, ask your grandmother if they waited until 6 months or if the baby sat in their lap and the mothers took a small spoon or their finger in the food and put it in their childrens mouth?
Now, here in Sweden they have found that due also to the fact that mothers here are more active, more stressed eat more fat free product and more, they don't always produce the fatty milk they should. So now they actually say it is ok to let your 4 month old "taste" som things.

Now, is it different children in different countries or just different "politics"? Think about it for real! When I was small there was porridge from 4 months but today it is the same just not the age set on the package, they don't want to compete out the breastfeeding, it is not evolution that has put this age in, we are still the same as in the stone age.

So, please don't be afraid to give your baby food, it is a myth that food vill make babies fat! There is nothing saying a "fat" baby is a fat child! Obesity is not diagnosed before 4 years of age. So please don't let them scare you with myths and false information. Read and find the sources on your own.
One thing about food that we actually do know now is Gluten and grains. If we introduce gluten into the diet before 1 year of age (and no breastfeeding will help) the numbers of diagnosed Celiaki rises, this has actually been a big issue here in Sweden where this is rising and where parents where told to introduce gluten while breastfeeding. But now studies show we should introduce it as late as possible and not early at all. This is why I'm more prone to puree with natural fats

Now to the nap, the long nap should be 2 hours and if he sleeps 11 am to 1 pm they he cannot possibly be tired again at 1.30 is he? If putting him in his crib for the long nap works for the full 2 hours that is great. That is what we do here, we put our babies in the crib in the PITCH DARK bedroom and most of them will sleep the long nap fine. The short once 45 min is easier in the stroller.

About the evening, he wakes up and behaves like that because you breastfeed him to sleep. This is what we change with the cure, he cannot even "slumber" by the breast when you do the cure. But now breastfeeding is the "Prop" for him to go to sleep, we change that with the cure so that we only calm dem enough to put them selves to sleep. This is a bit of work the first couple of nights but a 4-5 month old is easy!

So keep reading the book. Also read here in the forum we have answered many questions here before even in English. Read the Safari over and over. That is for night 1 and 2. Then the security.

[Gen.Pe]

I totally agree with you on the food issue. It’s what my “gut” is telling me too. Thank you for backing me up! I feel better about it. The baby cereal we have him on is an “ancient grain” brand which is gluten free. Ingredients instead are quinoa buckwheat etc.

Perhaps my problem with naps is more a schedule issue? We haven’t been able to nail down sticking to the times which is my fault. It’s close but instead of a 15 min variance it can sometimes fluctuate an hour. Tomorrow I will set my alarm for 7 and be very rigid with the schedule and see if that solves the nap issue. You’re right if he does sleep the 2 hours he isn’t tired at 1:30 but most of the time he doesn’t sleep the full 2 hours, only 1 hour and therefore after eating an hour after waking he’s then drowsy again. I am sooooo excited to fix the sleep issues and for the props to be gone! I will read and re-read.

Do you reccomend reading ftloc too now?

[TorsMamma]

Hi,

When you do the cure you will have to be very rigid with the times especially the first 2 weeks and after that nothing more than the 15 min. If you do, you will screw the schedule up sorry to say. Think of it that you are teaching him the clock, but when you don't keep the times it's like you keep moving the clock around.

If you have the FtLoC it is a great book about our basic routines, why we do what we do. But the GNS is the most focus you need during the cure. But let me know if you have it, it is my very very favorite!! I never did the cure on my son, just followed the FTLOC with him. But I have staid with Anna a few times and also cured quite a few babies during the years.

So read read read.

[Gen.Pe]

Ok, it’s been one week following the schedule as best as I can (Easter dinners at families places ruined that a few days; he went to bed an hour or more late.) and most times it’s been going well. I’m surprised how he has started to adapt and gets hungry around mealtime and sleepy around nap time. However I can’t get him to sleep the full 2 hour nap most days. He wakes early nearly an hour. If he’s not angry or crying hysterically I let him hang out in his crib, is that good? If he is reacting hysterically I eventually go in and then the lights on the end the nap and pick him up. Is this ok? Or do I let him cry and stay in there the full time without interruption? Regarding meal times I have started solids. Mostly baby cereal but he’s now tried avocado, banana, peanut butter, sweet potatoes, apple. It seems to be going well but I have noticed he wakes at night wayyy more now since we last spoke and I am loosing my patience. I don’t know if it’s the “sleep regression” books talk about at 4 months or if it could be the change in his diet? He wakes hourly sometimes twice an hour with a grunt/crying like he has gas- but who really knows? I’d like your advice on this because it’s making me go insane. I haven’t slept much in this week. I am desperate for the cure to work. We start tomorrow!!! But in the back of my head I can’t help but think “Will this really work for MY son with his current sleep issues roaring?”. Please tell me yes haha.

Anyways regarding his waking with uncomfortableness I read to give prunes. Question with that- I can only find unsweetened prune juice here so how much do I give? I read online an ounce for every month he’s old diluted in water. Tried 8ml yesterday without diluting it. He doesn’t seem to like the taste and I have to force it in by syringe. Shall I keep this up daily to help him adjust to the solids? Also he isn’t hungry right at 7am. So we don’t feed him until 740-8am. Is that ok? I bet this will change with the cure?

Lastly now that I’ve followed the schedule we set out; before we start the cure; should I change things to suit his tendencies better? What I mean is...when bedtime is at 7pm he will sleep but as I mentioned he wakes up every hour. When he goes to bed later, before the book we put him down at 9pm, he would stay asleep for at least a couple hours. For a 4 month old is it ok to put him to bed at 8pm let’s say and wake him at 7am? Maybe it’ll help him stay asleep during the 2 hour nap in the afternoon?

I’ve been reading the forum too- lots of people suggest house noise during the cure. I mentioned I have a white noise machine we currently use IN his room but was told to not use it during the cure. I’ve read people do use things like a vacuum or washing machine or radio anyways...so can I use my machine outside his room? What’s best?

Lastly I have concerns with my dear husband. He will take the last two night because I am certainly more business like. That’s my concern. He’s a softy, god bless him, and I don’t know if he will 100% stick to the guidelines of the cure when our son is unhappy. With most actives- napping feeding etc etc even the slightest crying he thinks I’m “being mean” by continuing the activity. To his defense (but not really?) he’s been working so much he hasn’t fully read the book yet and as I said his nights start friday!! Is it ok to summarize what I learned from the book and gives him my notes to follow if he doesn’t complete reading?? I took notes directly from the book so it’s not diluted. Advice here??