6-months baby-boy form Russia: day routing

[Leenkin1]

Hello all!
We are in a third day of cure today and our nights (thanks to Anna) become better from night to night BUT our day routing in not good enough.
Baby is moaning between day naps more and loudly than ever. It seems that he is dissatisfied all day long; his voice is disturbed, persistent and even abusive. It's difficult to make him funny or to get the interest with toys - he is only sucking his finger
I understood that this is normal for 1st and 2nd days but 3rd should be much better, isn’t it?
Due to his behavior I started to doubt that our schedule is good enough maybe there are too long wakefulness periods for him and he became tired soon? Though he used to sleep like this in daylight and much fewer at nights earlier.

Please take a look on our schedule and give an advice: should I change something or keep stability and continue in this way?

9.00 – wake-up
9.00 – 9.30 feeding
10.30 – 12.00 morning nap (1,5 hour)
12.00 - 12.30 feeding
15.00 – 15.30 feeding
15.30 – 17.30 afternoon nap (2 hours)
18.00 – 18.30 feeding
20.45 – 21.00 additive
21.00 – go to bed

Thank you in advance! Lina and Marc from Russia.

[TorsMamma]

“The breast feeding question” is very important for me – I’d like to continue breast feeding till 1 year old. It could be only additive or for night feeding but it’s essential for baby’s immunity.

I have concern that I would manage to keep milk without nursing during the night and with so long (12 hours) period. Breast feeding consultants in Russia insist that night-feedings are necessary for long lactation – they say that hormone prolactin is producing only during nights feeding and enable lactation during daylight also. They say that you will lose the milk without night-feedings.
What do you think on it? Perhaps I should to decant in nights?

Thank you in advance! Lina and Marc from Russia.

[TorsMamma]

Hi and welcome!

Lets keep all your questions regarding the same child in one thread, much easier for me to help you!

I took a look at your schedule and a few thoughts came to my mind. Normally the average child likes to have night from 19-07 a few 18-06 or 20-08 but from 21-09 I quite unusual. Also you have a bit too much sleep during the day I get all together 15,5 when the actual would be closer to 15 hours. Many still have 3 naps at this age. Which might be a bit of your problems? He gets too tired between naps.

My son slept more like this at 6 months

Night 19-07
Nap 8.45-09.30 (45 min)
Nap 11.30-13 (1,5 hour)
Nap 15-15.45 (45 min)

You can of course postpone the schedule with an hour or 2 so it suites you better. What do you give him to eat? He should have at least 4 meals and one for the road meal.

Here we have many mother who breastfeed before each meal, or after each meal and keep the lactation going just fine. I breastfeed until 7-8 months without giving any breast milk during 12 hours at night. So this is very individual.

So if you breastfeed in the morning when he wakes up, you can give him porridge or other breakfast about 45 mins later. And as the last meal before the night you can also breastfeed if you wish. Then you breastfeed in adjunction to the meal, either before or after, your choice, now breastfeeding is not the mail meal but only a complement to the real food.
A mistake many do is that they feed their child too little too slow. So feed him more than you think and a lot faster. They have no patience to sit and eat for an hour, but more likely 20-30 min so you will need to feed him faster and quicker.

Keep up the good work, it will get even better if you just work at it. Rome wasn’t built in one day.

[Leenkin1]

Hi TorsMamma, thank you for quick answer

The night from 9pm till 9am is very suitable for our schedule. We don't like to wake up early and daddy needs time after work to play with baby. He is usually at home at 8. It’s interesting that all our friends’ babies usually come to bad even later – it seems that it could be regional feature

I’ve settled only 2 day naps as it is always a big trouble to us to make him asleep in daylights. In addition it’s suitable to visit swim pool in the afternoon. Do you think that 3 hour between sleeps is too much for him at his age?
Due to his behavior now I suppose he need more naps really … The question is: could we change schedule now, in the middle of cure?

I breastfeed only yet. And he eats very fast – 10 minutes is usually enough. I’m just going to try porridge next week – he will actually become 6 months next week.

[Leenkin1]

I’m sorry for so many questions but the further we come more questions we have

I’d like baby can sleep his day naps both in bed and in carriage during the walk. As carriage is more usual for him and he sleeps better in it (on move) I’ve decided to start with sleeping in carriage and later (after 2 weeks) move to the bed. Am I right with this assumption?

In moving carriage we (I and my husband) use to say jingle the same way as at nights for sleeping in bed baby. But I suddenly red in forum that Anna said “Either you rock the carriage or you jingle - not both. Jingling the child in his carriage is what you do only if you use the carriage as a bed with no moving it. Do you follow me” and now I’m in a big trouble. We did wrong what should we do during walking with carriage and how we would move to the bed later?

This cure is completely new and unknown for Russian moms. I have anyone to get advice here Hope we will succeed nevertheless and I can share our positive experience among my friends and further.

[TorsMamma]

Hi,

Anna nor I recommend the cure for babies who only breastfeed and get 12 hours night on that. They need more solids to really thrive. I can’t stress this enough. Most 6 month olds have 2 porridge meals and two vegetable with fruit meals.

3-3,5 hours awake before night bedtime is ok, but for most babies 3 hours between nap is too much. But it is all individual.

If you walk with a stroller during naps, that will always have to be that way. Sure you can at a later time do the cure “during the day” to sleep the long nap in the bed.

Perhaps you would like this schedule routine then.

12+45+2+20 then you only have a 20 min nap in the afternoon and can take this anywhere you are. Think about the naps and the food, when he turns around 8 months most babies like to sleep only 2 times. I would say he is grouchy because he is hungry and too tired at the end of the wake up period.

When you walk with the stroller you don't jingle. But if you put to sleep in a still stroller you can choose which you want.

Normally we give the advise that you put the baby to sleep in a stroller not rolling or walking, and after 10 mins of sleep you can walk if you need to. But if you don't mind always walking, keep doing it. I needed to sleep during the long nap, så I had it indoors in his room and slept on the couch.

[Leenkin1]

Ooops so we’ve started too early and not in correct way?

Do you mean that we can’t use the cure while breastfeeds only??? But he slept 12 hours without any food all three nights of cure. He waked up during this period but not to much and always became asleep with jingle. And during the day I breastfeed him on schedule and on demand as additive. Should we stop the cure or might continue in some way?
I see now definitely that we have to change the schedule and begin to sleep some of day naps in a bed. What is the best way to implement it? If we could continue with the cure obviously

[TorsMamma]

Well, if you can be 100% sure he won’t wake up of hunger during the 12 hours, then it is fine to continue. But if he wakes up and the cure don’t work you will know why…

Just do during the day nap in bed as you do during the night, just have a jingle without the word night in it. You can buff the first day, then you let the jingle take over.

We don’t recommend the cure to anyone eating only breast milk, but I actually introduced 12 hours night at 4 months on just breast milk and before night a little formula as well. So it can be done, but if he wakes up during the night and can’t go back to sleep or continues to wake up after say 10 min over and over, you will know why. So try introducing solids as soon as possible is my advise.

I don’t recommend the cure while having night meals. Then you will need to stop the cure and have night meals for a while (should only need 1 meal at say 04-05) but all I know from experience is that a 6 month old is hungry, very hungry. They are usually active on their bellies on the floor and crawl around, so they need lots of energy at this age. WHO whom recommends the breastfeeding until 6 month had 3rd world countries in mind where you can’t find clean water and so on. Here in Sweden the porridge you can find in the store is from 4 months and many give them this from 4 month without stopping any breastfeeding. The best is to introduce solids with breastfeeding.

[Leenkin1]

We'll try to continue and I very-very-very hope we will succeed with your support -)

but I would suggest to stress "feeding factor" in Russian translation of the book as here all pediatricians recommend to start with solid not earlier then 6 months however you obviously can find clean water and any kind of solid in the store they do it for sake of long breast feeding and due to stomaсh features of little ones.

Why don’t you recommend to continue with cure while night feedings? Is it because it nothing happens at nights and we can confuse the baby? so if we could to make him calm and asleep without feeding we can continue I assume

What would you recommend to do if we decide to introduce new schedule? tomorrow will be 4th day of the cure.

[TorsMamma]

Hi,

Yes, the child would be confused and start asking questions when do I eat at night and when do I don't.

I don't think a revision of the book will be done, but we do talk about food in the book a bit.(have not read the russian version though) I have the swedish and english version.

From what age does the porrige and food say in your store? Do you have any from 4 months?

If you need to change the schedule do it right away and take perhaps another 3 days of questions during the day.

Yes, if you won't need to feed him during the night you can continue with the cure.

[Leenkin1]

the most of porridges in our stores are from 4th months -) in fact we have the same as all other world - Heinz for example - but lactation consultants and even pediatricians do not recommend early start if you want to breast feed till 1 year old at least -)
we’ll try another schedule and day sleep in a bed tomorrow.
Thank you for your help

[Leenkin1]

should we darken the sleeping place for day nap however?

[TorsMamma]

I usually had it fairly dark, if the child prefers it fine. 8)

[Leenkin1]

How would you like the following schedule:
8.00 – wake-up and breast feeding
9.00 – meal (solid in future, milk now)
11.00 – 12.30 nap at home in the bed (1,5 hour)
12.30 – meal
14.00 – 16.00 nap on the move in stroller (2 hour)
16.00 – meal
18.00 – 18.45 nap at home in the bed (45 min)
19.00 – meal
20.45 breast feeding
21.00 go to bed
(I continue to breast on demand while we are breast feeding only)

I've introduced this daylight schedule today (4th day of cure) and was not very successful
11.00 – 12.30 nap: fall asleep with shot buffing but only for 40 minutes
14.00 – 16.00 nap: slept only about 5 minutes during the whole walk
18.00 – 18.45 nap: fall asleep with very shot buffing but only for 20 minutes
The common behavior was even better then earlier. I feel that we came to bed in right time but why he slept so short? Does it mean that schedule is not suit at all? Or he doesn’t need more dream during a day as has 11-hours dream at night?

I definitely going to continue tomorrow with the same routing and without buffing at all but your advice is desperately needed.

PS I’ve bought the solid (vegetable puree) in the store. The are 2 notices on the can: 1) can be used since 4 months; 2) please consider that due to Russian lows and recommendations of World Health Organization (WHO) you should use this solid only since 6 months. So on

[TorsMamma]

HI,

When I look at your schedule i have these thoughts.

What happened to the 12 hour night?

Nap 1 is after 3 hours, that is a bit long wake time. Around 2 would probably be better.

Nap to is a bit too close to nap 1 that should have at least 2 hours as well.

You can’t do any evaluation after only 1 day but I wish you had talked to me before introducing this new schedule. We don’t want to change it again, that would truly confuse him now. So the daytime naps can take longer time to see improvements so don’t loose your patience. Keep your goal in mind and work calm and assertive.

Just believe you can do this and you will!

Also I would like to talk about social participation and belly exercise. He needs to practice crawling on his belly with no socks and no carpets on the floor, at least 5min/10time/day.

He also needs to have social participation participate when you do cooking, cleaning , folding clothes, washing. He can be on his belly if you do most things on the floor.

And then. Like you say outdoors, preferably 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the afternoon (or more is fine) But not with too much people, but water, forest, trees are good.

Some small children don’t get enough stimulation and others get too much, it is imperative you know your child so he is just perfect tired when put to bed.