how to get Saara to sleep her naps?

[loorip]

Hey!

Maybe someone can help me. I am doing something wrong, but I have no idea what.

We are having the follow-up week with my 7 month girl. We started the cure on 14.04 evening and everything went well. Today it is the 7th day. I can't say nothing bad about the night time. I have been following the GNS points (about the night at least) point by point and actually I'm bit shocked it works. She wakes up usually once and I get her back to sleep in about 10-20 min (not entering the room, only jingle when needed). Now as I said so, it will be probably a hell next night
But the daytime naps are another thing. She cries and I feel that I should not rock, but she screams. I try to jingle but usually I can't do it for very long, cause she will not relax. When I get her to sleep, see sleeps 30 to 45 mins (she should sleep 1,5h). Before GNS cure the daytime naps were better and she slept about 1,5h with pacifier.

Facts about daytime naps:
- she sleeps all naps on the balcony in carriage, she has done so since birth
- getting her to sleep is not perfect but is not as bad it could be - 50% of times I do not have to rock, but I have to jingle quit a lot about 15-20min (I try to do it at least with pauses).
- since it is still cold outside I have to put on quite many layers of clothes
- she sleeps on her side in the carriage, not on stomach, I tried to put her on her stomach in the carriage, but it didn't look comfortable to her, cause she is quite big (74cm and 10kg) and there are not a lot of space. When it goes bit warmer outside I'll change stroller seat unit, but until then, this bassinet option is warmer in my opinion. and because of the clothes it seems also not comfortable on stomach.
- as I said, sleeps now 30-45 mins, but when we started the cure, she slept 1-1,5 easily first 2-3 days.

My questions are:
- why she is not sleeping like she should at daytime?
- situation1: she takes her nap and then she starts to scream, but her eyes are still shut what should I do? I have been jingle, but it won't work. I have been rocking, but as you can imagine, she starts all over again when I stop. She wants to sleep, but can't. I know it is wrong, but for now I have been rocking quite long... How to act in this situation?
- situation2: when she wakes up way before she supposed to wake up (eyes open), but no screaming I have tried to jingle if I feel she gets nervous. As long I jingle she doesn't scream, when I stop, she screams. I have tried to keep her in carriage until it is time to wake up-15min. But I have to jingle quite long then. Actually my brain wants to jump out of my head because of it. There have been times I have taken her out before awakening time -15min. How to act in this situation?
- today I put a black cloth on the carriage, so it is dark in there. Am I doing the right ting? I had to rock a bit less today, but she still woke up too early.

I made her schedule considering her habits:
Night: 20:45-7:45 (11h)
Meal1: 7:45 - Breast milk and formula
Nap1: 10:00-11:30 (1.5h)
Meal2: 12:00- porridge
Nap2: 13:30-15:00 (1.5h)
Meal3: 15:00 - puree: vegetables + fish/meat + fruit, if there is room left
Nap3: 17:15-17:45 (30min)
Meal4: 18:00 - puree: vegetables + fish/meat+ fruit
Preparation for night fun-fun- fun + top-up 19:45-20:45 - for top-up she gets breast milk and formula
*She gets as much food she wants

I am afraid that I will eventually mess everything up cause mu confidence starts to shake.
Help me please!

Loori

[TorsMamma]

Hi Loori and welcome!

Thanks for giving me all the information!

My thoughts on this is as follows:

A 7 month old usullay works better with only 2 naps especially when you have so much trouble getting her to sleep.
Also as you say, when they finally learn to sleep on their belly in the bed you normally don't get the naps in a small stroller longer than 45 min.

she takes her nap and then she starts to scream, but her eyes are still shut what should I do?

This is very typical! She screams for you to rock the pram so she can go to sleep! She is screaming you to her! This is a now a habit you have created and she is demanding you to keep it up.

One thing you are doing which is very right, you covered the carriage with something so she can't see out. This will certainly help alot!
Also as you say, she has to much clothes on. Usually we try putting more things over and under them! So not much clothes, usually just a hat and sometimes mittens and socks. Then something isolating under like that material we use to sit on outside in the forest or when we sleep in tents outside. Swedish called "liggunderlag". Over that you can have wool, sleeping bag, extra blanket. But it is usually warmer than you guess in there!

My suggestion would be that naps that are more than 45 min you put inside in her bed Pitch dark room and perhaps have opened a window before so it is cool. Then she can sleep on her belly and you can relax more.

A very common schedule at 7 months is something like the rhythm 12+45+1,5(2) or 12+45+1,5+20

So just as you would expect we need to break the habit of rocking the stroller now. And the easiest way would be to put the naps in her bed for now.
I

[loorip]

Thank you for the answer!
Actually yesterday was already quite good and so far today also - almost no rocking.
Going to rethink her schedule. I still have some questions:

1. When she sleeps well in night, I mean no waking up in the night then she wakes up a hour before she should - about 6.30. At first she is quiet about 10-15 min and then screams. I try to jingle and managed to keep her in bed until 7.15. But it is still too early. If she wakes 6.30, then her night has been 10h. What should I do? Make her morning earlier? Keep doing what I do now (and hope she will soon sleep more)? I feel like she just doesn't want to sleep anymore.

2. When I can be sure she is ready to sleep her naps anywhere? I mean the book says, when my baby learns to sleep it is still good idea to track the schedule, but she will sleep wherever we are. Right now as I have put her to our balcony (cause it is said I have to be consistent about sleeping place) we have to hurry home from everywhere (from shop, from walks etc.) but when can I put her to sleep in the stroller where we are? What are the signs that she is ready? Is this the same time I can forget the black textile and pitch black bedroom?

3. Also I'd like to know when can I put her to sleep her naps in different places - I mean when can I choose the place freely? For example one day I want to put her in the bed and another in the carriage? I'm asking this because we are travelling a lot to the countryside (we have summerhouse and both of our parents live at countryside) and sometimes it would be very nice to put her not outside but inside. What are the signs that she is ready? Or maybe I should not do this ever?

I have to say that this is a great opportunity that I can ask those questions from someone. Thank you!
PS! When we get our experience with this cure, our friends (two families) are about to try - books are already ordered from Amazon

Greetings from Estonia!
Loori

[TorsMamma]

Hi, excellent work!

I'll try to address your questions.

1. It is quite uncommon for children to have a natural rhythm of 20-08 it is more common that they have 18-06. There fore I usually recommend no later schedule than 19-07 due to the things you mention. If you know you clearly have a 20-08 child then fine, but they are few.
How ever early mornings are quite common as well and sometimes need work for 1-2 months not uncommon. The second you hear her wake up, she gets a reminders jingle that it is still nighttime. After that you need to find a strategy that works for you. They are a bit different. Here are some:

Having problems with early mornings, are you not the first to have. The child is now sleeping more than ever and thinks that when they wake up at 5 am they are done sleeping. But we as parents know this is not true.

We have different strategies with early mornings but one thing to have in mind is that by running in and out the room using the tools you’ve now been given sends the signal “morning is here” . So in early morning cases “less is more”.

You give the jingle only once (always x4) as an information that the morning is not here yet. Then you do something difficult, YOU LISTEN. How is the sound? Most children get angry, very angry that morning is not here yet. Other get a bit sad but stops shortly. The angry kind can’t be used the tools on as you have experienced. They are too angry and angry you get to be, we can’t forbid our children to have a reaction. So let them react out and calm down or they get sad and you can once again use the jingle to calm down or do the “sun feather”.
Most children if this don’t solve it in a night or two we say “play Mozart”. You say the jingle once (x4) and then you play Mozart LOUD. They need to listen to something else than their own despair. Some have a tendency to get “stuck” as they just SCREAM (not crying this is different and needs to be calmed using the tools you have) then we break this behavior with Mozart. Classical music without singing. You can even use a cheerful Strauss.

Remember to do the laughing before going to bed and then remember to do a happy morning. No feeling sorry for the child, they will pick up on this and start feeling sorry for themselves. Also I would like for you to repeat the chapter “An attitude of Supreme Confidence” starts on page 166. Also repeat the chapter 3. Enjoyment page 83.

2. After about 2-3 weeks you should be able to put her in the stroller with the black textile over. But always ensure she falls asleep in it standing still! When she has slept for 10 min (never less) THEN you can start walking. If she wakes up, you stop, make her fall asleep standing still wait 10 min walk.
Regarding the black textile and pitch dark room I would say it's for life! My son 10,5, still needs pitch dark to sleep well. He CAN sleep ok if we are away, but never as well as in pitch dark.
If we were out I always had a travelling bed with me and a black sheet I could hang over with a small space at the end by the feet open for air circulation. Then he could sleep anywhere.

3. Se my answer above. Have a travelling bed, you can say after 4 weeks start training at home for 1 nap a day in that travelling bed, with black textile, sometimes you need a string/rope and clothes peg to put the sheet around the bed for pitch dark. I would say about 4-8 weeks depending on how things go for you. But the stroller is perfect.

Sounds good more families will get the fortune of a Good Nights Sleep!
What country are you all living in?

[loorip]

Thank you again!

Seems, that this black cloth will be our best friend. I have no idea what will happen when she will go one day to the kindergarten... there are no black cloths

What do you think, is this a good idea to put her on balcony with travel bed - since there is good air, no rocking? Or is the travel bed idea generally too early and I should choose still (as it is only 8 days since we started) between her bed and carriage as these are the familiar places?

In the end of next week (it will be 15 nights since we started the new life) we are planning a night at grandparents (actually it was planned months ago). Should I let her sleep at night in her stroller (indoors of course) /her travelling bed/ regular bed that is in the house (not cot, but secure one)? What would be the best option?

We are from Estonia
Loori

[loorip]

Probably I can use Mozart thing also in the night (for example 3am)?

[TorsMamma]

Hi,

Then I would train her to sleep in the travel bed at home now so you can keep up your "attitude" once you get to your parents house. Bringing the bed there.
Sure you can try to put the travelbed on the balcony, just use the black cloth over to block impressions.

That will give you 1 week to get it. For instance to the "short" naps in stroller and the long one in travel bed.

[loorip]

We have a new schedule:
Night 19:30(20:00) - 7
First nap 10-11:30 (outside in stroller)
Second nap 14:30-16:30 (outside in travelbed)
+ dark cloth for now.
And ofcourse five meals.

First days she was very tired about a hour before nap time, but now it seems the new routine kicks in and suits her.
Now we have to survive our trip to countryside and after that a week long vocation trip. We will see how it goes
Thank you! I hope I don't have to ask anymore and everything goes as planned.

[TorsMamma]

I wish you the best of luck! Remember the attitude and the times of the schedule. Rather than where you are.

I also hope you won't need to ask more but would keep us updated on how things are going for you!

[loorip]

I cant't belive it! It was our first night away from home (first night after we started the cure). The conditions were far from ideal, the place was noisy and crowded, but we had our travelbed and black cloth. The night was perfect - she slept from 20 until 5:12 and from 5:20 until 7!

[Tin]

Hello,
well done.

Yes, and that you have seen it with your own eyes, you be able to carry that attitude with you where ever you are.
Its more schedule and routines and your being consistent that where you are in the world. Always.

=D> =D> =D>

Keep up the good work.

hugs, Tin

[loorip]

Hi!
I could use a little advice.
Our daytime naps getting worse now. She sleeps in her bed (dark room). When I put her in the bed and fan her, she is calm. As soon I walk out and start my jingle she screams. I'm not turning back, I continue to jingle from other room, but last days she has been screaming until she fell in hysteria.
I have tried to jingle, but eventually I have go back, cause she stands in her crib and screams. When I put her back to the position and fan, she is almost calm - I mean she is tries to calm down (she whimpers because she was in hysteria and screamed almost her head off). And again as soon I walk out, everything starts all over again.
Tips?

Loori

[TorsMamma]

Hi Loori,

How old is she now?
What is her schedule like now?

If you go to the very top of this page you see "control panel" in there you find signature and you can put her birthdates in your signature and this will help us.

[loorip]

She will be 10 months next week.

Night ends 6:30-7
Bottle 7
Sometimes gets a small snack before nap
Nap 10-11:30
Proper meal on 11:45
Snack (bigger one) 14:30
Nap 15-16:30
Proper meal 17
Bottle 19:45
Bed 20:00

Night sleep is perfect, usually no wolf hours (only on rare occasions). She goes to bed at eight in the evening and she stays there nice. But the trouble is bed time at 10 and 16. Screams like crazy person!
I can see, that she currently has a mental leap and it should end in few weeks, but I believe that is no excuse. Usually she sleeps bit worse during those mental leaps, but this time I'm afraid it will go on after leap ends cause it has not been that bad before.

Which of betime routine activities should I review?

Loori

[mamaA]

Hi!

I´m having trouble advising you since your schedule is so unusual. Usually you have two naps, 45 min and 1,5 hour but then you have 12 hour night. I can see a problem with two long naps during the day, mabye this schedule doesn´t work for her now that she is older. There´s a reason we recommend certain schedules because they are well tried and work for most kids. You can´t cut down on the naps you have because of the short night so I would recommend 12 hour night and two naps 45 min and 1,5 hour, the last nap ending so she has 4,5 to 5 hours time awake before bedtime. Even if the nights aren´t a problem it is the total schedule that has to be taken in to account and the problem usually shows it self somwhere you don´t expect because you think the problem is elsewhere.