5 month old beginner

[arvobaby]

hello,
we are currently on a situation like this.
we started about two weeks ago by changing the daily routine to this
8.30 wake up, breastfeeding
10.30-11.15 nap
12 breastfeeding
13.30-15 nap
15.30 breastfeeding
17.15-18 nap
19.00 breastfeeding
19.30 bath, if hungry breast, laugh
20.30 sleep
at nights we couldn´t begin at the time, because we were entertaining guests at our house and couldn´t do the preparations. but were totally desperate already with the baby waking up approximately every hour. the day routine helped a lot and nights got easier with just putting the pasifier back on his mouth and husshing until at 5 he got crazy and we gave him a bottle.
now, this beginning our third night we are on the cure, but have problems.
he does not like at all to be buffed, it only gets him really worked up, does not relax at all and seems to think its a punishment more than relaxing. he does sometime relax if i just hold him still from his side (sleeps on his side because we in the first three months didn´t notice he kept his head mostly on the other side and it got flat, doctor said its important to keep him on his other side as much as possible because it started to form bumb on the other side)
he falls asleep in less than 5minutes when put to bed, but wakes up a lot, cried first night for half an hour at most but second twice for a whole hour. at the end of the night did weep and fall asleep with rhyme. when he´s crying i go in, relax him a bit, say the rhyme, he protests, leave the room rhyming, still protests, say it from the door, still protests, and after that i wait. say again, no change. is really angry and rolls around in his beed+pulls the blanket in anger. say again, no change. crying, go in, relax a bit and so on. at the end he does get more quiet, sobs and falls asleep.
is this right? i´m thinking maybe this is so hard because he really misses his pasifier, or bottle or what?
are we doing something wrong? sometimes he sounds really sad. then we are supposed to go in right?
we are sleeping in the same room with the baby, because we don´t yet have him a room of his own, but he cannot see us.
i felt heartbroken to listen him cry so much last night, but if it works it´s worth it.
naps go well and he wakes up like a clock at 11.15, 15, and 18. but always crying a lot and it´s really hard to calm him down without lifting him up because he really does not listen at all. i put my finger on his mouth so he wakes up properly while sucking it and then listens to me and starts calming down. he´s always really tired about 10min after waking from his naps.
but before he used to cry for up to half an hour after waking from naps so it´s an improvement.
thank you!
m

[Sarisparis]

Hello arvobaby and welcome!

I have never cured myself, but I'm sure your little boy needs more to eat. Only breastfeeding is not enough for a 12 hours night. And people of 5 months are capable of eating a lot!
With my first son, I was determined to breastfeed completely until six months (as the WHO says, or at least said at the time), but his nights got worse and worse from about five months on. That's when I got the hands on A Good Night's Sleep. I was so motivated to cure my son, but simply by giving him solids (pourridge and bananas for a start) and putting on the famous Attitude he started sleeping all on his own. So no cure needed.
With my second boy, I did as Anna said, started to give solids around four months and he sleeps so well.

I'm sure you will get other answers about the cure, but start by giving him some solids and that might be enough to improve his sleeping pattern.

Good luck!

[arvobaby]

thank you for the tip,
i´m a bit confused now on how to continue.
solids have not yet been succesful, he keeps pushing them out of he´s mouth immediately. sometimes eats a little but throws up later.
but last night he made a breakthrough and slept almost 11h. in the morning when i fed him he was just trying to flirt with me and didn´t seem to be starving.
but he´s almost 8,5kg so i do think he needs more food.
i suppose i got worried for nothing with his second night.
he used to eat every two hours for the first 5m of his life, but after the beginning tiredness+weirdness of the new daily
routine he´s really started to flourish. and he loves the routine. eats better than he used to with my two hour feeding...
this morning he was awake when i went to wake him but he was fingering his blanket and having a cute conversation with himself.
should i now continue as i´ve been doing or...
would seem like a bad idea to back down from a trip well started.
falls asleep really well for his naps still but cries a lot when woken up/wakes up.
thanks,
m

[Luvisen]

Hello there!

Don't be confused, that just produces anxiety and your baby needs leaders. Nothing less.

What kind of solids are you giving him? Sariparis is right- the little person needs more food, food that makes him really satisfied.

Continue with the schedule, that in itself seems to suite the little person. And you guys as you know exactly what he needs when.

Tell me- do you have the book A Good Nights Sleep?

So I take it then that you now don't have problems with the tools?

You wrote:

he does not like at all to be buffed, it only gets him really worked up, does not relax at all and seems to think its a punishment more than relaxing

Buffing should not be felt as a punishment nor should it even be on your mind! [-X When done right it's like a real good massage. Steady and rythmic. Nothing else. If you don't know how to do it- don't do it. Right? Also one cannot buff and the except the baby to say- "Wow! Mommy thanx! It really feels super! " You yourself have to know what you are doing and be absolutely sure that you know that is feels good. Try it on yourselfs to make sure and THEN apply. Then patiently you convince the child. The child cannot convince you. If you are with me.

Looking forward to your reply!

All the best! /Luvisen

[arvobaby]

thank you for coming here,
the solids i´ve tried so far are plum with pear, potato with formula, mashed banana and today succefully havre porrige with formula. we got atleast four spoons down and no throwing up.
i do not have the book good night sleep, because i have not found it in finnish but i have now the barnbok (in finnish).
i feel i understood the procedure from your internetpage quite well, but i am new with children and didn´t understand feeding meaning more than breastbeeding. i would hate to be the idiot keeping my child hungry and saying at the same time it´s time to sleep now. #-o .
buffing works like wonders nowadays, he´s kind of singing when we do it, and otherwisely i feel we have no problems with the tools. everything we have done have made his life better.
he seems happy.
there is a but.
because i started worrying about food and he started to kling into my breast during feeding and cried around six-seven everynight for more than an hour his dad and i gave him the bottle last night and the night before. to see if it helped. and in a way it did. the night before he ate it and went to sleep, sleeping till i came to wake him. but last night he woke up almost every hour and i feel we went right back to beginning.
i have all the feelings in the spectrum and i try to not let them show to the baby. i really feel i´m in the end of the rope. but the rope prob has a good way to go still, i wouldn´t want to know.
his dad workes nights and when we are alone i feel he gets anxious. he cries when we get out of bath and dads not here. i read a book out loud so it seemed there was a conversation going on and it helped enough to get him eating, but he was reluctant to laugh.
we have a rough path behind us me and him, cause i´m so in need of sleep i have problems to keep cool during nights and till now it was mostly on my back.
in short i probably need to work on gaining his trust,
but how to go with the food from now on? i believe we will succeed with solids at the end of this week, but till then. if we give the bottle during night it will ruin all the work done so far? and if we don´t we keep him in bed hungry?
and if we wait till solids go better we start all over again?
i´m exhausted to even think about tonight.
and i feel we have no options that are good.
please [-o<
m

[Luvisen]

the solids i´ve tried so far are plum with pear, potato with formula, mashed banana and today succefully havre porrige with formula. we got atleast four spoons down and no throwing up

Porridge :thumbsup: Keep going with that at least 3 days ! Then after every porridge meal you start giving fruit puré to top it off. Make sure it's almost like liquid.

Did you read the Barnabok chapter about food? And giving "real" food for the first time and the importance of keep trying? You know these little ones don't have an opinion BUT however their stomach might agree och disagree with some food stuff. Some kids stomachs cannot take cowmilk or white flour. See how things go and then get to me if you need alternatives.

otherwisely i feel we have no problems with the tools. everything we have done have made his life better.
he seems happy.

Looks like things ARE getting better! :thumbsup:

i really feel i´m in the end of the rope.

Don't loose sight of your goal! [-X

his dad workes nights and when we are alone i feel he gets anxious. he cries when we get out of bath and dads not here. i read a book out loud so it seemed there was a conversation going on and it helped enough to get him eating, but he was reluctant to laugh.

Don't change things and try to keep your baby happy. Jus be happy yourself and really be yourself- that is what babies like. No funny stuff! Just \:D/ :-({|= . Put on some good music and relax yourself! Babies get worried when mommies and daddies feel crap. And sometimes we do feel crap BUT we must keep that to ourselves and proceed as if NOTHING has happend. Everything is tip top.

we have a rough path behind us me and him, cause i´m so in need of sleep i have problems to keep cool during nights and till now it was mostly on my back.

I hear you, that is he way most stories go, including my own. However when you jingle in the night (if it is necessary to jingle- that is!) you must do it: loud HAPPY and assertive. Not angry. Okay? Otherwise it's like you're saying- Go to sleep now!!! And who wants an answer like that when your worried that your gonna die?

Give the bottle during the day and try to put as much food into the little belly before bedtime. Do you give a big bottle before bedtime? Make sure that the feeder has a bigger hole so he gets more food faster. That can help.

Try to avoid feeding at night. If you feel it is necessary at some point for this week I would give it in the dark without saying anything and then go out as if nothing has happend. Don't use the jingle then. Unless ofcourse he starts screaming after awhile and needs it.

Patience and love now. You can do it!

All the best!/Luvisen

[arvobaby]

wow-si-wow!
sarisparis was right, it´s amazing how much he can eat! and how much bigger he´s gotten in this short time he´s been eating solids.
my mother got so worried she even texted me last night saying i overfeed him, and he will `expload´...
nights too are going great, we both feel better and life´s better than ever. baby´s so happy his life has a routine and enough food.
it´s great how everything i´ve tried has worked, and after reading the barnbok i´ve included him more in our life and that works like magic.
only one thing...
in the mornings he wakes up an hour or an hour and half before i get him up. we usually talk in quite good atmosphere. he asks and i answer.
but sometimes in a more angry or hysterical way too. he can get really worked up.
i read the petite hours can be tricky for a long time, but hows with the morning. he does not fall asleep during that last hour. he either cries it through
or then he´s awake talking.
during nights his bed is so dark i can hardly see him, in mornings it´s dark, but not as dark. is this the problem?
or is it just normal in the beginning to have a rough hour somewhere?
thank you so much!
m

[Sarisparis]

Thank you for this very nice report, so happy to hear things are getting better.

The early morning hours can be tricky for some time, but you have some things to consider that might improve things straight up:

1) complete darkness
This is what worked for our boys. Daytime, do the test. Draw the curtains (and anything else you might do at night to make the room dark). Stay in the room and let your eyes get used to the darkness. Do you see your hand in front of you after a couple of minutes? You shouldn't! 8)

2) minimal intervention
Keep in mind that tools should be used only if your child really asks for help (sad). Happy and awake, angry and screaming, well nothing much to do.
What you can do, is to give one single jingle when you hear your child is awake. A so called ka-boom jingle, to clearly inform your child that it is still night.
After the ka-boom jingle, some put on some music (like Mozart), others do familiar noises like flushing the toilet, but personnally I feel that silent is as good (I also think it's more logic - at night, NOTHING happens).

3) schedule
You do not have too much sleep on the schedule, do you? Early mornings can be a sign that it's time to review the schedule.

And of course, LOTS OF FOOD AND FUN day time!

[arvobaby]

i feel desperate. is this cure only gonna work if i´m doing it all the time.
about 5 days ago my mother left and she only put him to bed once. i had given her instructions and she did it as best she could but told she got emotional and cried because of ´grandmotherly´ emotions.
she was here a week having good time with him and couple days i thought he´s just missing her but now its been 5 days of us being back on where we started.
he cries the morning hour or two through. i try rhyming and he ´responds´ by getting furious. he sometimes calmes down a little but when i try to rhyme the confirmation and he hears my voice the crying begins again. it goes past the time i should wake him up. and i wait till he´s a bit calm and go wake him. but it´s horrible him beeing there so upset when he sees me it takes 10min for me to get him calm enough to pick him up. his room is totally dark and i am as happy as i possibly can. but i do wonder what me totally ignoring his obvios bad feelings says.
the naps go the same way, i get him to sleep after pulling hes wagons till he´s just about to sleep and then rhyme, but that´s usually already the third time around.
he´s lost his confidence of beeing alone at all, and is horribly clingy the whole day. and so have i. i feel horror just hearing him beginning his crying when his supposed to sleep.. usually i get him back to sleep if it´s night by rhyming just couple of times and the dialogue is short so it still works. and he still sleeps the night quite well.
i´m so tired i usually cry the time hes finally sleeping.
i have no help here so getting someone to step in is not an option.
please give some advice?

[Luvisen]

Let see now:

is this cure only gonna work if i´m doing it all the time.

No, ofcourse not BUT you child needs to become a secure sleeper before you start letting other people putting your darling to sleep.

he cries the morning hour or two through. i try rhyming and he ´responds´ by getting furious. he sometimes calmes down a little but when i try to rhyme the confirmation and he hears my voice the crying begins again. it goes past the time i should wake him up. and i wait till he´s a bit calm and go wake him. but it´s horrible him beeing there so upset when he sees me it takes 10min for me to get him calm enough to pick him up. his room is totally dark and i am as happy as i possibly can. but i do wonder what me totally ignoring his obvios bad feelings says.

He shouldn't cry for hours. First time around there when you rhymed he was just mad for some reason which is his business and then you gave him an answer to a question he did not ask. Do you follow? Mad little darlings are best left alone.

I think what you got here is att bad little pattern- that's all. Don't fret. Restart the whole thing by adressing his crying. That is:

:arrow: When he wake up in the night you wait. Don't rhyme. Wait.
:arrow: And when you hear that he is SAAAD you go in directly. Buff until he stops crying and is calm. Then you proceed with the sunfeather. If he would start crying again you start buffing again UNTIL he is calm. Totally calm. Your goal at this point is for him to become CALM.
:arrow: When he is calm you proceed with the sunfeather until he is asleep. Your goal here is to get him totally SLEEPY or ASLEEP. Doesn't matter which.
:arrow: Now you rhyme OUT. If he starts crying you rhyme softly and REASURING until he is quiet. When you hear he is winding down then you also give him the confirmation-jingle. (When you do this rhyming it can help to think that he is in your arms and you are soothing him) Your goal here is for him to be QUIET.


This manouver you should do ONLY once with PATIENCE. If he wakes up again during the night you jingle directly UNTIL he is quiet. Okay?

Next night you start to wait ALOT before you jingle. Because now he has an ANSWER.

I will continue to answer you later because I have to run now!

Strength and warmth! /Luvisen

[Luvisen]

but i do wonder what me totally ignoring his obvios bad feelings says.

You don't ignore his feelings. He needs a leader. And what does a leader do? Lead! That is to say show the way. So how do I do that?! You might wonder. It is not enough to soothe a child, it's not even enough to be happy . It is not even enough with being . You have to be: \:D/ . You must lure him to laugh. When you wake him you must ofcourse turn on the light and WELCOME him to a wonderful NEW day!! Where everything is Fantastic! You must greet him like you been away forever. "Wow! It's you! I can't believe it! You wonderful superfantastic little person! Look! It's a NEW day! " Little people don't understand subtle messages, it has to be absolutely clear that everything is ok. If you feel that you are laughing AT him or feel like you are ignoring him then he will pick up on those feelings and get stressed.

he´s lost his confidence of beeing alone at all, and is horribly clingy the whole day. and so have i. i feel horror just hearing him beginning his crying when his supposed to sleep.. usually i get him back to sleep if it´s night by rhyming just couple of times and the dialogue is short so it still works. and he still sleeps the night quite well.
i´m so tired i usually cry the time hes finally sleeping.

What happened with grandmother is that she gave him a whole pack of wolfs to deal with. You didn't find a way to shoot them so that is why he is stressed. You have to shoot them! He didn't loose his confidence, you did. You must believe in what you are doing and change you attitude.

I would urge you to read A Good Nights Cure book to get the whole story to build a good Attitude. This is not a quickfix, you must work at it step by step and to remain focused and confident in the competence that your child has. In order for your child to believe your message, YOU must believe in it.

Make sure your child is with you when you make your chores. He should be in the very centre of where everything happens. If your doing laundry, he should be in the laundrybasket, if you get my meaning.

Don't give in and give up. Strengthen youself! You must think that sleeping is a sure thing- just as sure as the earth is round!

/Luvisen

[arvobaby]

hi again and good morning!
thank you for the advice, i try an take the attitude to my spine.
there´s one thing i´m sorry to say i don´t understand.
yesterday morning he started the usual crying, starts by gently crying, calming down, crying, getting angry, and ending up sad. i went in and buffered, fethered got him silent, left and jingled. silence. but it was only 5min before he was to wake up. so i go in and he´s there, awake but quite happy. the day goes well, the night goes well. but this morning again he starts 6.30. an cries ´till i go wake him up.
question is, after he´s been crying for 1-2hours and still cries when i go do the morning spectacle, does it not say that in the end he´s crying pays off?
he had his 6month birhday, so now a 6month old- still a beginner!

m

[Luvisen]

Hmm... I not sure I understod your question...

If you jingle 5 min before it's morning and then go in, it is to short a time between the jingle and going in. Then the message is: When mommy jingles she is on her way over here...Which is not good. Then he will expect you to come in when you jingle. If you for 1 morning use the procedure I wrote down BUT do it right away when he wakes up and the next morning you do nothing then the message should be " You can sleep tight. Nothing happens at night."

But when you do nothing YOU must concentrate on sleeping yourself, NOT lie and listen to your darling. That sort of overconcentration disturbs the little person.

Does this help in any way?

/Luvisen

[arvobaby]

yes, it answers the question exactly!
thank you!
we try going with this.
have a great week and thank you again!
m

[arvobaby]

just dropping in to say life is SO good! baby is a happy sleeper and one big sunshine! I wanna thank you for this forum and the help I got! It turned our world around.
Thank you!
:thumbsup: