Failed to implement the GNS cure

[MaesaarM324]

Hi,

My friend recommended GNS after successfully getting her two sons to sleep whole night with this method.

My son is 8 months old and has always been a very bad sleeper. I am now going back to work and get only 2-3hrs sleep in the night, so I am desperate to sort this out. My marriage is suffering, as I am so tired I cannot even talk to my husband without snapping and being sarcastic.

I have read the GNS book many times, made notes, set up daily plan, written all down and kept bookmarks in the book in places where I keep going back to read again and again to make sure I know what I am doing.

I got all ready one evening and I was on my own with the baby. We had nice dinner, bath, playtime with lots of laugh and then said good bye to the lights and jumped into bed.
I looked Anna’s video of buffing from Youtube and I positioned my son as shown and started to buff. I was confident and firm and kept saying to myself that we can do it. First 5 minutes were fine but then he started to moan, slight cry, kept forcing himself up in bed. I firmly positioned him again and carried on. He started to scream louder and louder. I carried on. He turned his bottom towards the bars that I couldn’t tap it. Then turned on his back and kicked my hands when I tried to buff. Then he was sick, then he started to bang his head on bed bars and screamed. I gave up. I had tried 1 hr and 15 minutes.
We came out of the room, he cried and I cried because I failed as a mum to help my son to sleep.

Where did I go wrong? I want to try again but worried it will end up again like this Please advise.

Thank you.

[MaesaarM324]

Sorry, forgot to add that I have created a terrible habit of him falling asleep on the bottle. So our nights are all about “finding the bottle”. He goes to sleep only when bottle is in his mouth, screams when it falls out and when its given back to him. Just sucks empty bottle if milk runs out. In the night it can happen up to 15 times, him waking up, us finding his bottle from bed, sticking it in his mouth and making him fall asleep
I tried to take it away from him and not give it to him but after 2 hrs of screaming like mad, I give in again

[TorsMamma]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

So I'm very happy to hear you have the book and read it many times. Let's start with the basics, what is the schedule like and food times and "what" do you feed him with?

Also, he is in what we call 8-month anxiety and this is a rocky time for both parents and children. I believe we have written a bit about this even here in the English forum. Please have a look and see if you find it.

If the "buffing" doesn't work, either you don't have the correct technique or not the calmness you need for him to finally calm down from it. The buffing is not necessary for a successful cure since it is only the first and second night you use it. Perhaps fanning is more. your thing? But you need a TOOL that is NOT the bottle or caring or something like that.

I would suggest finding someone else to practice the buffing on, it is quite the firm rhythm like technique and demands its woman to do, especially on an 8-month old that can be quite strong. But you should be able to hold the body firm enough so he can't move it. (I usually don't like holding the head as hard so they can at least move it from side to side, but the body is extremely firmly pinned to the mattress)

[MaesaarM324]

Thank you for your reply.

I did read about the 8 months time, as I also have Anna's other book (sorry I do not know what is that called in English, as I have that book in my mother tongue in Estonian and translating straight from Estonian it is called Growing together. I believe this is the For the Love of Children?)

Current routine is all over the place. Morning naps are always around 10am. But some days when he has had extra bad night, the morning nap is 2 hours, some days its 30 minutes. Lunch time nap (despite of the morning nap length) is very difficult. He does not like to have a nap around 12am or 1pm, but has started to have his lunch sleep at 3pm and sleeps until 4 or 5pm. Which straight away pushes the evening sleep further for us. Some days he goes to bed at 7.30pm but most days is more like 8.30 pm. When I count his hours for sleep, most days it comes to 12 or 13 hrs and not 14.5 as it should be for his age.

The plan I would like to have for my son, I have adopted from GNS book for a 8 months old, as it fits into our daily routine very well. He is quite bad eater, especially breakfasts can be a real struggle.

Currently maybe he does not eat enough either, but to get food into him is a real issue. We have first food around 8am. Sometimes porridge with milk (normal milk) and some fruit puree. But he has two spoonfuls and then refuses and keeps his mouth shut. I eat myself sandwich for breakfast and I have started to give him also rye bread with spreadable cheese and some cucumber, he prefers that to porridge. He also has fruit puree in the morning or then packet food which is fruit puree mixed with oat and rice flour and yoghurt.
Around 9.30-10am he has 240ml of formula. Very rarely finishes the bottle.

Next feed it 12.30 or 1pm. Usually has stew or risotto or whatever we have eaten, I puree it for him. Also bit of fruit puree as a dessert or half a banana.
Bottle around 2pm. 240 ml of formula. Again, sometimes has it all, sometimes only a little.
Next food is dinner at 5pm. Warm food like potato, vegetables, cheese&pasta etc. Bottle before bed at around 7.15pm, 240ml. He usually has all his evening milk. When he has not fallen asleep by 8, I usually top up with another 100ml of formula.

His solid food eating is not good. He does not like to feed himself, his grip is not very good, when I give him smaller pieces, he cannot pick them up and they end up on the floor. If I give him the bigger piece, he puts it all in his mouth and then starts to choke, as he does not know how to chew it smaller. I feed him myself but again he has two spoonfuls and that is it. Then we have to play with him to make it a fun in order for him to eat it.

He has one bottom tooth out completely and the up front two teeth are just coming thru now, together with second bottom tooth and other 2 teeth up next to the front teeth. So all 5 come at the same time.


Daily plan (what I would want to achieve!):
Night time 19.30 to 7.30
Feed 7.45
Nap 10.00 - 10.45 (45 min)
Feed 11.00
Nap 12.30 - 14.00 (1,5 hrs)
Feed 14.00
Nap 16.00-16.20 (20 min)
Feed 17.00
bath, fun and games 18.30 - 19.30
Bed 19.30

Thank you again for your help with all this! I really hope one day we will achieve this timetable and help him to learn to sleep.

[MaesaarM324]

also, thought maybe it is important to add that despite of all the poor eating, he is a big boy. He is 10kg, 74 cm and very strong. He crawls a lot and pulls himself up on the bed, sofa, table etc and wants to stand up or climb up the stairs. He is very advanced for his age.

[TorsMamma]

Hello again,

So based on what you describe and his age, I would say that perhaps you should make a schedule with only 2 naps. Around 8-9 months old it is time anyway. So perhaps if you change to that it will be easier to keep it.

I made some changes for you in the schedule you sent. See how you like it.

Daily plan (what I would want to achieve!):
Nighttime 19.30 to 7.30
Feed 7.45 (give BLW and skip the porridge)
Nap 10.00 - 10.45 (45 min)
Feed 11.30 Solid food (BLW) (perhaps some banana right before the nap)
Nap 13.00 - 15.00 (2 hrs) (13.30-15.30 if you rather)
Feed 15.00 Snack
Feed 17.30 Dinner
bath, last bottle, fun and games 18.30 - 19.30
Bed 19.30

Now if you take a look you can see that I put in something called BLW it stands for Baby-led Weaning. It is a way to feed solids to small babies but the food is big enough to hold and not put in your mouth, but you chew or suck on it. Like you could boil a BIG piece of broccoli and put a lot of butter on it. He can then hold it and bite it as he wants himself. And as he is busy with that you can put the other foods with a spoon in between. Just remember you need to be quite quick about it.

Also, please keep in mind he needs to crawl and move around ALOT all day. Be outside for 1 hour am and 1 hour pm awake and preferably active himself, not just sitting in a stroller or swing.

What do you think?

[MaesaarM324]

Hi and sorry for the late reply.

Our little boy has been ill, full of cold and had fever. He has been very grumpy and he is not really a baby who would cry during the day at all but we have had days with hours of just crying and feeling sorry for himself. Therefore we have put the GNS on hold until he is well again,as he refuses the solid food most days and not too keen on his milk either.

I think his teeth might trouble him as well, as he cries in the evening a lot and has fallen asleep at 11pm, he has not even been interested in his bottle, refuses to drink milk, when he cries.

The plan you changed is good for me. I am happy with it.
Only problem is, that it is impossible to do 1 hr am and 1 hr pm outside, as I am not at home anymore with him and he is now at childminder's. They do go out, but not twice a day as the childminder has also a 2 year old girl and 2.5 year old boy to look after.

The bad thing is that as he is now at childminder's, I cannot follow through with the plan for morning and afternoon nap. Could childminder do it? Or it has to be one and the same person who does the night routine?
Other option is to try the plan over Christmas, as then me and my husband are off again for 2 weeks.

I tried BLW. He eats broccoli florets very nicely but when he gets the stem part, he puts the whole one into his mouth and starts to swallow and starts to choke as it gets stuck. I have to then pull it out. While he holds his broccoli, his mouth is firmly shut when I try to get some food into him with the spoon

He is still active, crawls a lot, plays with his toys, jumps in the jumperoo,he does not sit still, so I think he might wear himself out quite a bit. Will see how he feels when coming home from childminder's.

[Tin]

Hello there,
a few quick answers:

The bad thing is that as he is now at childminder's, I cannot follow through with the plan for morning and afternoon nap. Could childminder do it? Or it has to be one and the same person who does the night routine?

Yes the childminder can do it. Teach them the jingle and give them a schedule, and ask of them to follow it. You wont be able to do the cure if the amount of sleep hours are not correct.

He eats broccoli florets very nicely but when he gets the stem part, he puts the whole one into his mouth and starts to swallow

.
Ok, take the stem off him when the floret is eaten and give him another one. Also what other food have you tried give him on the spoon? You could also go with pieces of bread with butter on etc. Quite a lot of babies grow out of smooth solids and prefer a bit of texture to it so i could be an idea to not pure it to smoothly. Quite a lot of kids also dont like potatoes which is what most parents try first on kids so I would keep giving a variety.

If you want to wait until he is well again that is up to you, many parents do that. I would say that when you are ill is when you need sleep the most. So it is not a hinder for the kid to have a cold, but it can be a hinder for the parents who want to wait until conditions are perfect before they can muster the attitude needed to get results. Up to you. Having two weeks of and all the time in the world to focus on this sounds great, however Christmas can also be busy.
Whenever you decide to go again, make sure you have two SOLID weeks of availability to do the routine AT HOME in his own bed with no exceptions. No late night at a relatives etc. That matters more than being a little bit sick.

So have a think, make a plan and execute.
Until then, merry Christmas.

hugs Tin

[MaesaarM324]

Hi and thank you for the reply.

He is now well and over Christmas we can try it again. Night sleep will not be anywhere else apart from his own cot, I refuse to go anywhere after 5pm, as I am firm that he needs to have his dinner and bath and bed at home and nowhere else. Lunch time sleeps and morning naps (he still wants to have a morning nap) are all at childminder's in his own cot or at home in his cot.

I do try other solid foods. Some evenings he eats his food but when we eat with him, he wants our food as well. Then I just chop up some food and give him in pieces and he eats it like that. For example we had roasted carrot sticks, potatoes and parsnips and chicken. He happily had chunks of these from my plate and ate them very well.
I am giving one pureed food a day, usually lunch (from a pouch, as it is just easier for me at the moment, as getting back to work, getting him ready for childminder and settling in, until we have established a routine) and other food - dinner, is usually the same what we eat and he is ok with that.
He does not want his usual spoon anymore, he prefers the normal teaspoon. I still give fruit purees for him with the spoon, which I have made myself, but fruit purees from the pouch, when he sees it, he wants to hold the pouch himself and suck it, not me to feed him.

[TorsMamma]

Hi, sounds like you have a plan!

Good Luck!

[MaesaarM324]

Dear Torsmamma,

On my way to work was reading the GNS book again to get myself ready and then read your post again. You said that maybe buffing is not my thing and I should try fanning instead?
How would I do that? When I put him to bed and just spread my hands on him like a fan and in same rhythm (1-2-3-4) do the fanning as I would do buffing? And at 4 just lift my hands up and put back on him again?

Thank you!

[TorsMamma]

Hi, so the fanning is a static holding position that you hold quite FIRM. I personally don't hold the head down only the whole body until baby is calm. You need to have great control of your breathing. I breathe quite LOUD in and out so that the baby hears your calm breathing and does the same. Let go when the baby is calm (not sleeping). So the rhythm is set by your breathing.

[MaesaarM324]

Hello again Torsmamma,

New issues. The baby falls asleep on a bottle, even if I try to bring his bed time forward by half an hour. Usually goes to bed around 7.30, but tried to give milk at 7 and he still falls asleep. When try to give milk straight after bath, he won’t drink it and if I have to put him to bed without evening milk in order to implement the fanning. But then he won’t sleep, as milk fills him up until morning.
What should I do?

We have had about 7 nights in a row now with very good sleeps. Just waking up once or twice without even trying the cure. So we hope when we start the cure it will be easier :S

[TorsMamma]

Hi, so you need to ensure he doesn't fall asleep. If you even see him relax too much, STOP feeding and throw him up on your shoder for a burp or so. Then feed again. And so on. It will take a bit longer, but he will learn. After the bottle don't forget the laughter!!! So you are really on your way now. You really don't have to do the cure, it is only for difficult children who need GREAT help. Perhaps your son can learn without, it is all in the "attitude".

[MaesaarM324]

Good evening,

My husband took the lead and started the cure this night. It took him 10 minutes to get our son to sleep (no idea how, as I couldn’t do it even within an hour!). Will see how the night goes

My question is, do we have to do the same (buffing, fanning etc) technique for tomorrow morning and lunch time naps also?

Thank you!