Desperate about sleep situation, please help

[*JEN*]

Hello everybody,

I do not speak swedish so I hope it is ok to write in english.

I am having big trouble with the sleep situation of my kids - daughter 3,5 yrs and son 10 months.

Both of them don't sleep enough and cannot sleep through the night. My daughter has always been difficult to get to sleep, the only way was breastfeeding or carrying around outside. She would wake up more than 10 times every night to breastfeed. It got a little better after weaning, but now she still wakes up most nights and I have to hold her hand. She also cannot fall asleep alone.

My son is the same - he needs to breastfeed to sleep. He also wakes up many many times every night. Sometimes he just falls asleep again and then my daughter awakes - some nights I can only sleep 4 hrs and am not "allowed" to move to a comfortable position all night

I have not slept through the night for more than 3 years now and I am more than tired, I am desperate for sleep, and so are my kids.

I heard about Anna Wahlgren's sleep book and bought it. from the first page I felt adressed and got excited, what I read seemed to be the solution to all my problems. If only half of it was true it would be so great.
So I decided to try the method - with my son first. So I arranged for my daughter to stay at her grandparents house for 3 nights.

I put my son in his bed alone for the first time in his life tonight and he was not very happy about it. It was impossible for me to soothe him using the bottom patting method. So I got him out again. I know this is not right, according to the method. But he was crying and sweating so much I could not stand it. After soothing him i tried it again - same result.

Now I think i spoiled everything because I got him back into my own bed and breastfed him to sleep.

How can I stand it to really follow the sleep plan? I am so tired myself, i am too fatigued to endure hearing him cry. And I have to do the 3 nioghts all by myself, because I don't live with the kids' dad anymore.
Anyway now there are only 2 nights left before my daughter comes back, so it is not possible anymore.

I feel like the worst mum on earth and like a loser - I am not able to get my kids and myself the sleep we all need so desperatly.

Now I am sitting here crying and don't know what to do. I would be happy about any advice

[Stina49]

Cheer up luv!
I'm new to this as well so we've to support each other .

My husband and I have had no nights since our boy was born on August 1 without multiple feedings, and decided to follow thru with this as well. Tonight. We prepped his room today and although he has slept 80 percent already in his own crib, which has been next to my bed, I tend to be so exhausted by the 4 am feed that I let him stay in our bed after.

Since I'm not an expert at this I can only offer some support and my thoughts. You have to take care of yourself, otherwise you can't be a good mom for both of your little ones so it is utterly important that you don't give up now. You still have two night and that CAN work. The third night is not already doomed to be hell, so think positive.

Does your son burp properly? That could wake him up. Ours take forever to burp and as Anna writes in her book, when they fall asleep on the breast they are not full enough, nor burped. Hence, they will wake up within half an hour. I think that has been happening to us a lot.
We've also started with the bottle a little bit and test portions during the day so try and really stuff him tomorrow and keep him awake, i.e. don't let him fall asleep on the job, the breast.
Tonight, I was determined to insist and insist again on him having as much infant formula and as much breast as possible. He had 100 ml of the formula and finished both breasts -- AND burped. So it worked! It took about an hour 15 from start to finish. Burping took another 30 minutes. First time ever he ate that much prior to bedtime. After his burp he woke up and seemed peaceful. Husband and I both cheerfully said a quick goodnight and left his room.

My husband has just come down from his room upstairs after the first... well, what Anna calls the baby carriage pulling in English I'm not sure about but let's call it Carriage-Pulling here. It took 20 minutes and it almost broke my heart hearing him cry and cry. But he stopped! (Note: his first protest came already after 15 minutes of us leaving his room).

Our baby has always slept on his back and although I've tried to change it a couple of times for his day naps (after reading Anna's book), he is not accepting it, but we're convinced we can follow this with him on his back. We'll see, I'm positive.

Whatever you do -- do not give up, or give in:!:
You can do this. You need to do this for your own sanity and again: you have tomorrow to prep and two whole nights that can make a huge difference. If you can, ask the girl's father to have her one more night, OR, ask a friend you trust or relative to have her for one or two more nights.

Keep me posted and good luck to both of us.
Warmly,
Stina
mother of Kasper 080801

[*JEN*]

Hi Stina,

thank you so much for cheering up.

I am really sad. I really think I am not couraged enough to soothe him without breatsfeeding.

He is so lively, when I put him down to start the bottom patting he already is crying and gets up again all the time. It is impossible to hold hom down without using force. He moves so much that I can't really pat his bottom and it is so exhausting for me as he is determined to sleep in a bunk bed, so I have to bend over and after 10 minutes I thought my arms would fall off

[mattias@hemekonomi.com]

Hello!
I'm not an expert in any way, tomorrow night is the night when we are going to use the method to help our 11 months old daughter to sleep better. But I felt so sorry for you, you seemed so upset, so I just had to write something! I think I understand how you feel though. I haven't had much sleep for a year now so I know what it's like to be tired... But it's been three years for you... Poor thing.. :/ Don't you have anyone that can help you? Not just by taking care of your daughter for a couple of nights but to actually help you with your son? You can probably manage the nights on your own if someone can help you during the days..? Even if you don't live with the kids' father anymore, maybe he still can see it as his responsibility to help his kids sleep..? Or someone else who still has a Christmas break or something? I know it must be hard for you to solve the practical things. Just don't beat yourself up about not succeeding with your son. I bet it's so hard... But you can make it next time!
Good luck to you!!
Stina

[Stina49]

I totally understand. It IS hard!
Absolutely NO force... then it's better that you stick to your old soothing technique, the breast.

I've tried buffing and ours cries and cries too. I have only done it for tops five minutes and I interupted it because he became so hot, BUT it did have a calming effect on him so he soon fell asleep as I turned him over to his back.
Another soothing technique you might want to try is to carefully swaddle him. My son was born in the US and there it seems much more common. We've swaddled him so that his arms are free to move about, but the thin blanket wraps around torso and legs. He really likes that and it really helps him calm down when he is overly tired.

Is your son overly tired and therefor lively, or is he really not at all tired? Do you get him to burp when you sooth him on the breast? What about a pacifier? Ours didn't take the dummy at all in the beginning but I've a method we used you can try: swaddle him and lay him next to you. Look into his eyes and talk gently to him about this and that. Give him the breast if you have to (still laying down), but switch to the dummy when he starts to look satisfied and sleepy. This worked for us. Sometimes I'd do a regular pumping move with his leg, that seemed to calm him down very much too. I'm sure Anna's folks do not support that kind of soothing because it does not free you up nor does it make your son learn how to fall asleep without a lot of bells and whistles so to speak.

Anyway, do not give up and whatever you do, don't do anything with force.
Warmly,
Stina

[Stina49]

I just re-read my last reply and realized that I wasn't really offering you any help. Just different soothing techniques but I guess that isn't really what you are looking for.
Remember that you WILL have nights in the future that will be different. This fall I've been so exhausted, a real bitch to my husband AND frequently depressed.

During sleep deprivation it is so hard to imagine that anything will feel better or become different. But it will. I'm sure you've had an extra rough time with your second child since you're now alone with them and perhaps your daughter's sleeplessness is a mirror of some of the anxiety you've gone through. And is still going through. Kids tend to know/feel when even the smallest thing isn't right.

So if nothing else works for you right this moment, do not loose hope and do know that change will happen!!!
Stina
mother of Kasper 080801

[Kantarella]

Hi *JEN*

I´m no good in English but I will try to give you my toughts anyway. I hope you´ll understand what I`m trying to say.

The first night IS hard. It´s the night when you turn things around. Of course he will wonder what´s going on and he will ask you loud and clear if everything is alright. You have to convince him of that. You don´t give in until he is satisfied with your answer.

The bottom padding-tecnique takes a while to learn so practise a lot until you feel you´re doing it right. Practise on your own legs. You´re not supposed to "slap" him, but pulling him upp and down a bit in the bed. It won´t have a calming effect at once - he´s not used to it - so you´ll have to reassure him and don´t give up until he´s.... reassured. (I don´t find a better word )

It will take a while to calm (=soothe?) him the first night and it is hard, but it will never take this long again. Already the second night, it will be better.

I am really sad. I really think I am not couraged enough to soothe him without breatsfeeding.

The most important thing for you is to make a decision. Go for it or not! If you go for it you´ll have to be a hundred percent sure of what you are doing, why you´re doing it and how. You owe it to your son and you don´t wait for him to tell you what to do. He will not give you that answer. Read the book again and do it "by the book" if that´s your decision. There are no shortcuts.
Otherwise don´t. It´s not fare to your son to give him different answers every night. He´ll depend on you to do what´s right for him, if it´s breastfeeding him to sleep, doing the good night sleep-method or whatever.
If you´re not comfortable with the good night sleep-method, he won´t be either.

Let me know if you´re having any questions to my reply and I will try to answer them. I hope I don´t seem too harsh, that is not my intention. It´s my bad English!

I wish you good luck.

/Åsa

[*JEN*]

Thank you Asa for your advice! You encouraged me to try it again yesterday evening. But - pathetic as I am - I failed again. It breakes my heart to hear my baby cry out so desparately, even if i am next to him he will not be calmed

I really spoiled it now and I am so sorry for my kids The Wahlgren method seemed to fit so good and made me dream of better days.

My baby slept at 8 yesterday, was awake at 10 and from then on once an hour to breastfeed, from 5-7 he was drinking all the time - I am so tired and so is he

[cecgus]

Hi Jen!
I feel for you, I really do. Being forced to listen to your baby crying is horrible. We have all been there...
But I think that you have to realize that when you keep lifting him up, feeding and nursing him in the middle of the night you are making it even worse for him. STOP doing that!

He isn't crying because he is sad or miserable. He is probably asking you a whole lot of questions. You just don't understand him yet. Your son is crying because he doesn't have any other way of expressing himself. He wants you to convince him that it's ok for him to sleep. You have to learn him and give him the right tools so that he can feel safe and secure enough to sleep alone. In his bed. Without you.

The bottom-padding technique is an excellent tool for helping you too calm him down. The first time, when you introduce it, it does take a long time. I think I stood for about 50 minutes the first time, after that 40 minutes and so on. During the whole first night. Today, if I have to use it at all, it takes me about 20 seconds to calm my girl.

I know that you have all the strength and most of all love for your kids that you need to go through with this. Give your son this wonderful, lifetime long gift, and in return you will get your night sleep back .

How is his schedule? You son is 10 months now so he should have about 14 hours of sleep during the day. 12 of these during the night .
It is very important that you have a schedule during the day to follow. Everything is connected, food, sleep, awake time and so on. How much food are you giving him? He does not need to eat during the day if you give him enough during the day.

Be strong and keep the goal in sight. Give it some time, You will soon be able to sleep again. I promise! :thumbsup:
Good luck!

//Cilla

[*JEN*]

Hello Cilla,

my schedule is this:

19-7 Night sleep
8 Breakfast
9:30-10:15 sleep
11:00 eat
13-14 sleep
14:00 eat
17:45 eat
18-19 Bath, fun, good night drink

Problem is I myself am too fatigued to work towards change And then I start to doubt - in the daytime I really AM convinced and think I can be strong, but when he is crying so much I think maybe he is thirsty or hungry and I can't stand it. Then I do start to think maybe the method is not right. I know that this is the mistake, but how should I change it? I am so tired, TOO tired to act

[Lua]

I can tell by what you are writing that you are exhausted and really sad. I feel for you both!

My advice to you is to give up this method until you find the strenght to really go through with it. Maybe someone can help you with Tim so that you can get a couples of nights sleep?

It´s not our job to convince you about the method, only to guide you through it, and help you keep your goal in mind. Have you read about any other methods? Maybe something else will be better for you?

Hugs from Lua.

[cecgus]

I DO really understand that you are tired. I were where you are now in the end of november when I started the process with my girl. I only have one child so you probably have even more to win then I have had.

You have to stop doubting the method and yourself. Your boy can manage fine without eating during the night. What do you feed him at 17:45? Porridge perhaps? If so he is more than saticfide for a night without eating. I'm telling you if you put up with 2 more nigths without sleeping and can endure his "screaming/asking questions" 1 more night you will soon be able to sleep again.

Decide a new date to start. \:D/ Filled with confidense and attitud of truism. Ask you parents or some friends to watch your kids during that day so that you can sleep a couple of hours before you make a new fresch start?
Ask a friend or mum/dad to be your support during 2 nights if you feel that you need someone to back you up and strenghten you when you start to doubt yourself.

I also conducted the process without my daugthers father. He was totally against it and he gave me a whole lot of guilt and bad conscience, but I KNEW that this was right. So I did it anyway, and today, he thanks me . It WAS tough and I cried and had a lot of doubts. BUT I took it up here on the Forum instead of at home infront of my daughter. I tried never to show her my insecurity. I knew that she couldn't help me anyway. She was the one in need of help , and I was the adult who had to give her that help. So I did, eventhough I was more dead than alive, due to the lack of sleep during the last 8 months. You can do this, I promise!

Read some more in the book and fill yourself with attitude so that you can convey the right answers to your son when he starts to ask. And remember he does not scream or cry... He asks you questions and your job is to give him the answers.
You have to belive that this IS the best you can do for your son. And for you. You can make this happen. :thumbsup:

[annawahlgren]

Tack, alla för vackra svar

Sign. JEN är tyska och skriver även i Internationella Guestbooken, där Lone, min tyska översättare av bl a Barnaboken och Internationella Sova hela natten samt diplomerad SHN-kurare, svarar för glatta livet (öppnas under tyska flaggan).

Omsider, när A Good Night's Sleep (SHN på engelska) har kommit - och det är snart - kommer vi att öppna ett engelskspråkigt forum, liksom ett tyskt (där kanske fler kan hjälpa Lone) och så småningom också på andra språk, allt eftersom boken blir klar på italienska, estniska, ryska och finska också.

Till dess är det Internationella Guestbooken som gäller :thumbsup: